This can be a rush transcript. Reproduction is probably not in its ultimate shape.AMY GOODMAN: That is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The Warfare and Peace File. I’m Amy Goodman.
A most sensible United International locations professional in New York has resigned and accused the United International locations of failing to deal with what he calls a “text-book case of genocide” unfolding in Gaza. Craig Mokhiber is an established global human rights legal professional who served as director of the New York Place of business of the United International locations Top Commissioner for Human Rights. He had labored on the United International locations since 1992 and lived in Gaza within the Nineties.
In a letter addressed to the U.N. Top Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Türk, Craig Mokhiber wrote, “In Gaza, civilian properties, faculties, church buildings, mosques, and clinical establishments are wantonly attacked as hundreds of civilians are massacred. Within the West Financial institution, together with occupied Jerusalem, properties are seized and reassigned based totally totally on race, and violent settler pogroms are accompanied by means of Israeli army gadgets. Around the land, Apartheid regulations.”
Craig Mokhiber went on to write down, “What’s extra, the governments of the USA, the UK, and far of Europe, are wholly complicit within the horrific attack. No longer simplest are those governments refusing to satisfy their treaty duties ‘to verify appreciate’ for the Geneva Conventions, however they’re in reality actively arming the attack, offering financial and intelligence toughen, and giving political and diplomatic duvet for Israel’s atrocities,” unquote.
On Tuesday, the U.N. launched remark about Mokhiber’s resignation, announcing, quote, “I will verify he’s retiring lately. He knowledgeable the U.N. in March of his upcoming retirement, which takes impact the next day to come. The perspectives in his letter made public lately are his non-public perspectives,” the U.N. stated.
Craig Mokhiber joins us now in New York, the primary day he’s no longer operating for the United International locations.
Welcome to Democracy Now!
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Thanks, Amy. Excellent to be right here.
AMY GOODMAN: So, discuss why you left.
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Smartly, I in the beginning registered my considerations in writing to the excessive commissioner in March, as you heard from that remark, within the wake of a wave of human rights violations at the West Financial institution, together with the pogrom Huwara at the moment. And at the moment, I complained, in reality, about what I noticed as a trepidatious reaction by means of many within the United International locations, and an effort to take a look at to silence one of the most human rights critique of U.N. officers, together with myself. And I admit to feeling quite a lot of frustration, and at that second indicating that I’d be resigning from the U.N., efficient this month. So, in fact, the location were given a lot worse since then, which is why I used to be — specifically the occasions in Gaza — which is why I used to be forced to write down this newest letter to the excessive commissioner, to position on document my very critical considerations about how we have been failing to deal with the unfolding occasions within the Occupied Territories.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you assume the United International locations, the USA, the West, U.Okay. must be doing at the moment?
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Smartly, I feel there’s a duty at the a part of all member states of the United International locations, together with the ones states within the West, to reply in line with their duties underneath global legislation, together with global humanitarian legislation. My central level in the newest letter was once that we had successfully left global legislation in the back of when the global neighborhood embraced the Oslo procedure, which type of raised up notions of political expediency above the necessities of global legislation. And that was once an actual loss for human rights in Palestine. I feel there’s a duty at the a part of all states no longer simply to appreciate global humanitarian legislation and global human rights legislation, however, underneath the Geneva Conventions, to verify appreciate. And it’s transparent that many states, together with the USA itself, have no longer simplest — don’t seem to be simplest in breach in their legal responsibility to verify appreciate vis-à-vis the ones states over which they have got affect — on this case, Israel — however were actively complicit, actively engaged in arming, in diplomatic duvet, in political toughen, intelligence toughen and so forth. That could be a breach of global humanitarian legislation. We’d like the other of that. We’d like all states, contributors of the United International locations, to make use of no matter affect they have got to verify an finish to those assaults on civilians in Gaza, to verify as neatly responsibility for the perpetrators, redress for the sufferers, coverage for the susceptible there.
It’s fascinating, Amy. We’ve a components on the United International locations this is carried out to nearly each different battle scenario. However in the case of the location in Israel and Palestine, there’s a distinct algorithm, it seems that. And that’s, I feel, a large supply of my frustration. The place is the transitional justice procedure? The place is the U.N. coverage drive to give protection to all civilians? The place is the tribunal for responsibility? The place is the motion at the a part of the Safety Council, the one mechanism within the United International locations that has enforcement to verify coverage within the Occupied Territories? Clearly, each effort within the Safety Council is vetoed by means of the USA itself, an additional indication of the type of complicity about which I’m referring.
And I feel the opposite factor that should occur within the global neighborhood is that we need to abandon the failed paradigms of the previous on a political degree and get again to the roots, which is global legislation, global human rights. What has took place within the context of the so-called Oslo procedure, the two-state answer, the U.N. Quartet, is that they’ve acted successfully as a smokescreen, in the back of which we have now noticed additional and irritating dispossession of Palestinians, large atrocities, akin to the ones as we’re witnessing now, the lack of properties and land, additional agreement task. , it’s an open secret throughout the halls of the United International locations that the so-called two-state answer is successfully unimaginable now — there’s not anything left for a sustainable state for the Palestinian folks — and takes no account of the basic human rights of the Palestinian folks. The brand new paradigm must be one based totally upon equality of all folks there, equivalent rights for Christians, Muslims and Jews. And that must be the brand new means.
And I feel, as neatly, , it’s fascinating that this 12 months we’re commemorating the seventy fifth anniversary of the Common Declaration of Human Rights, followed in 1948. That very same 12 months, the Nakba happened in Palestine, and apartheid was once followed in South Africa. We’ve noticed, on account of a constant global legislation and global human rights means within the U.N. and the global neighborhood, that apartheid in South Africa fell. We didn’t take the similar means in Palestine. We’ve deferred to those political processes. And because of this, no longer simplest have we no longer noticed an finish to the oppression of the Palestinian folks, we’ve noticed a seamless worsening of the location.
AMY GOODMAN: So, you’re an established human rights legal professional. I would like you to reply — I performed this already for Yousef Hammash in Gaza at the moment, in Khan Younis, to reply, however I’d such as you to reply to it, as neatly. After Israel’s assault on Jabaliya the day prior to this, the IDF spokesperson, Israeli Protection Forces spokesperson, Lieutenant Colonel Richard Hecht, seemed on The Gentleman Report and was once interviewed by means of Wolf Blitzer.
WOLF BLITZER: However that there are a large number of refugees, a large number of blameless civilians, males, girls and youngsters, in that refugee camp, as neatly, correct?
LT. COL. RICHARD HECHT: That is the tragedy of conflict, Wolf. I imply, we — as , we’ve been announcing for days, transfer south. Civilians that don’t seem to be concerned with Hamas, please transfer south. We —
WOLF BLITZER: Yeah, I’m simply looking to get a bit of bit additional info. You knew there have been civilians there. You knew there have been refugees, all varieties of refugees. However you made a decision to nonetheless drop a bomb on that refugee camp making an attempt to kill this Hamas commander. Through the best way, was once he killed?
LT. COL. RICHARD HECHT: I will’t verify, yeah. There shall be extra up to date. He, sure, we all know that he was once killed. In regards to the civilians there, we’re doing the whole lot we will to attenuate.
AMY GOODMAN: So, he’s announcing they’re doing the whole lot they are able to to attenuate. He’s speaking about Ibrahim Biari, whom it recognized — Israel has recognized as Hamas’s commander of the Jabaliya heart battalion, announcing he was once killed in the ones contemporary moves. Are you able to reply to each side of what he stated? They have been looking to get a high-value goal, as they put it, and they don’t seem to be looking to kill civilians.
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Smartly, I feel what’s necessary in that interview is this is any other of many indications of intent at the a part of Israeli government, that shall be essential in a courtroom of legislation. He has stated very brazenly that they knew of the concentrations of civilians there, and but, in violation of the primary of difference in global humanitarian legislation, and at the pretext of killing one combatant, burnt up the easier a part of a complete refugee camp, densely populated refugee camp. And I feel what’s been fascinating on this conflict is the very open remark of intents. I referred in my letter to the case for genocide which is occurring now. And, , “genocide” is an excessively politicized time period, ceaselessly abused. However on this case, the toughest a part of proving genocide has been confirmed for us with those very open statements of genocidal intent by means of Israeli officers, together with the high minister and the president and senior Cupboard ministers and army officers, who of their public statements have indicated very obviously their purpose to not distinguish between civilians and fighters, and to hold out the forms of wholesale slaughter that we’re witnessing in Gaza. That’s not a justification in global legislation, announcing that there was once a combatant there, for that very disproportionate use of firepower towards what was once a civilian goal. And that’s what we’ve been seeing in all of Gaza, from the north to the south.
The opposite factor is that this declare that, “Smartly, we informed them to transport south, and subsequently we will kill everyone who didn’t transfer.” That is a particularly bad and illegal tactic this is getting used, first as a result of we all know that evacuations in Gaza in the most efficient of occasions, on this densely populated small territory with 2.3 million civilians crowded in, with very restricted infrastructure, is a big problem. However maximum of Gaza has been bombed into rubble. It is only no longer bodily imaginable for civilians to transport en masse within the ways in which Israel has required them to take action. And we all know, already neatly documented, that after they achieve this, they’re nonetheless subjected to bombings even within the south of the Gaza Strip. So, all of this, it sort of feels to me, is proof of intent and a prima facie case for violations of the rules of conflict.
AMY GOODMAN: Israel has referred to as for U.N. Secretary-Normal António Guterres to surrender, after he stated Hamas’s October seventh assault didn’t occur in a vacuum. That is Israel’s U.N. Ambassador Gilad Erdan.
GILAD ERDAN: Mr. Secretary-Normal, the U.N. was once established to forestall atrocities, to forestall such atrocities just like the barbaric atrocities that Hamas dedicated. However the U.N. is failing. The U.N. is failing. And also you, Mr. Secretary-Normal, have misplaced all morality and impartiality, as a result of whilst you say the ones horrible phrases that those heinous assaults didn’t occur in a vacuum, you’re tolerating terrorism. And by means of tolerating terrorism, you’re justifying terrorism.
AMY GOODMAN: That’s Israel’s ambassador to the United International locations. Craig Mokhiber, your reaction?
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Smartly, in fact, you’ll be able to consider why the ambassador would wish to get started the clock simplest in October and to forget about the many years upon many years of persecution towards the Palestinian folks in Gaza, within the West Financial institution, in Jerusalem, within Israel correct. However that’s not the type of evaluation that results in peace or results in an progressed scenario at the flooring. The secretary-general was once doing his activity. He had condemned the lack of civilian existence within the Hamas assault, and he additionally criticized no longer simply what Israel was once doing in Gaza, however the entire occasions that experience led as much as this example.
And that’s what I imply by means of a wish to smash from the failed paradigm of the previous. We in reality wish to get into one thing that claims that human beings are entitled to human rights underneath global legislation and that the obligation of the global neighborhood is to verify coverage for all underneath the rule of thumb of legislation, but in addition responsibility for perpetrators and redress for sufferers.
So, It’s not that i am shocked at that remark. We’ve noticed a large number of excessive statements from that exact ambassador, a large number of theater, as neatly. I don’t assume we must permit it to distract us to what’s going down at the flooring, which is the wholesale lack of lifetime of blameless civilians of their hundreds, together with hundreds of youngsters within the Gaza Strip, and the wish to get to an instantaneous ceasefire after which to shift into a brand new means that may save you this from going down over and over again and once more.
AMY GOODMAN: I’m questioning in regards to the function of Karim Khan, the lead prosecutor of the Global Prison Courtroom. I feel he was once in Rafah only some days in the past. We see the sector’s reaction, or the West’s reaction, when it got here to Russia invading Ukraine and occupying Ukraine. Karim Khan, very quickly after, opened a complete investigation into crimes towards humanity that Putin was once committing in Ukraine. Are you able to reply to the variation in technique to Russia and Ukraine and Israel and the Occupied Territories, formally, global legislation, the OPT, the Occupied Palestinian Territories?
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Smartly, there was a surprising inconsistency with the rapidity with which the courtroom was once in a position to transport and the prosecutor was once in a position to transport with reference to Ukraine and the years upon years through which it has dragged its ft with reference to Palestine. That is simply one of the opinions of the courtroom, together with the truth that it does no longer have an excessively sturdy document of maintaining Northern international locations — Israel, the USA and others — to account for his or her crimes underneath global legal legislation, and but could be very worried to transport ahead on circumstances within the International South.
Now, that’s not to sentence the courtroom. The courtroom is a tender establishment. It must be bolstered. It must insulate itself from the forms of political force that experience ended in its state of being inactive in relation to Palestine. However our hope, in the end, is the non violent answer of disputes thru using global legislation. And if that’s going to occur, we’d like a strong and truthful Global Prison Courtroom that doesn’t supply for exceptionalism for robust international locations of the North, like Israel, for instance, however that holds all perpetrators of global crimes to account. The courtroom has an extended strategy to move sooner than it’s going to have the recognition that may carry self assurance globally that it’s assembly its mandate underneath the Rome Statute.
AMY GOODMAN: On Monday, White Space Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre in comparison pro-Palestinian protesters to the white supremacists who took phase within the fatal Unite the Proper rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017. She made the remark in keeping with a query from Fox Information’s Peter Doocy.
PETER DOOCY: Does President Biden assume the anti-Israel protesters on this nation are extremists?
PRESS SECRETARY KARINE JEAN-PIERRE: What I will say is what we’ve been very transparent about this: On the subject of antisemitism, there’s no position. We need to make certain that we talk towards it very loud and be — and be very transparent about that. Bear in mind, what the president made up our minds to — when the president made up our minds to run for president is what he noticed in Charlottesville in 2017, once we — he noticed neo-Nazis marching down the streets of Charlottesville with vile, antisemitic simply hatred. And he was once very transparent then, and he’s very transparent now. He’s taken movements by contrast during the last two years. And he’s endured to be transparent: There is not any position — no position — for this kind of vile and regardless of — this type of rhetoric.
AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s President Biden’s spokesperson, Karine Jean-Pierre. Craig Mokhiber, your reaction?
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Smartly, I feel some of the anxious sides of this present scenario within the North, in international locations just like the U.S. and in Europe, has been this moderately remarkable crackdown on human rights defenders talking as much as shield the human rights of folks in Gaza all the way through this example. And that has come from professional statements that attempt to critique in that means people who find themselves protecting human rights, and to match them with far-right neofascist protesters, for instance. I imply, it’s an outrageous comparability to make. And it doesn’t prevent there. We’ve additionally noticed very sturdy efforts at the a part of executive establishments, together with native governments and state governments and the government, and universities and employers and others to punish folks for bold to talk up, criticizing the human rights violations which might be going down, or criticizing the U.S. function in those violations.
However I feel what’s maximum hopeful, Amy, and the place there’s a glimmer of hope, which has, I’ve to mention, moved me very a lot, it’s that individuals don’t seem to be permitting themselves to be intimidated by means of those techniques. We’ve noticed large demonstrations, in all portions of the rustic and in Europe, from folks again and again risking arrest, risking police beatings, risking different penalties, as a result of they decline to permit this to head ahead and to have the human rights declare be silenced. And I feel maximum encouraging, we have now noticed — , only some blocks from right here a couple of days in the past, we noticed a big workforce, arranged by means of Jewish Voices for Peace, IfNotNow, of Jewish protesters status up and announcing, “No longer in our identify,” and taking on Grand Central Station, and in a single transfer stripping away the Israeli propaganda level that they’re by hook or by crook appearing within the protection of Jews. Jewish folks don’t seem to be represented by means of Israel. Those protesters have made that completely transparent. Israel pushes an outdated antisemitic trope that it by hook or by crook represents Jewish folks world wide. No longer simplest is that no longer factual, nevertheless it’s very bad. And everybody wishes to understand that Israel is a state that’s liable for its personal crimes, and that duty does no longer prolong to our Jewish brothers and sisters, a lot of whom are status up along Muslim and Christian and others in demonstrations throughout this nation and throughout Europe, announcing that this should finish.
AMY GOODMAN: I sought after to get your reaction to a remark in The Parent by means of Anne Bayefsky, who directs Touro Faculty’s Institute on Human Rights and the Holocaust in New York, who accused you of overt antisemitism, announcing you used U.N. letterhead to name for wiping Israel off the map. Craig Mokhiber, if you should reply?
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Smartly, Anne Bayefsky is a well known entity among human rights defenders. She has made a occupation of attacking any person who dares to criticize Israeli human rights violations, particularly. I’ve spoke back to this concept of wiping Israel off the map by means of announcing I’m no longer searching for an finish to Israel, I’m searching for an finish to apartheid. And it’s very telling, what Anne Bayefsky tweeted in her assault on me. She accused me of antisemitism, and the quote that she took from my letter to turn out that was once my name for equivalent rights for Christians, Muslims and Jews. I had to respond to her tweet by means of announcing that she had grow to be a parody of herself, as a result of if calling for equivalent rights for Christians, Muslims and Jews is a brand new type of antisemitism, then there’s no dialog available.
However I don’t assume persons are falling for those smears anymore. They’re virtually automated. However the level must be made over and over again that grievance of Israeli human rights violations isn’t antisemitic, simply as grievance of Saudi violations isn’t Islamophobic, grievance of Myanmar violations isn’t anti-Buddhist, grievance of Indian violations isn’t anti-Hindu. If any of the ones are true, then there’s no global human rights framework. And if simplest the case of Israel is correct, neatly, that’s a racist proposition that simplest Palestinians can’t have their human rights defended on this globe. So, I don’t assume any person listens an excessive amount of to these forms of smears anymore. And fortunately, persons are talking up louder, no longer decreasing their voices, to call for human rights within the Occupied Territories.
AMY GOODMAN: So, what do you move off to do, Craig Mokhiber? I imply, you’ve been on the United International locations for many years. Discuss your plans now. Lately is your first day that you just’re no longer operating on the U.N.
CRAIG MOKHIBER: Smartly, I intend to stay thinking about the reason for global human rights, through which I’ve been concerned since 1980, in reality. There’s no query about that. I will be able to do it underneath my very own identify, unconstrained by means of diplomatic protocol and the restrictions of the U.N. I will be able to proceed to toughen my colleagues. I don’t wish to depart the affect that I’m criticizing the entire U.N. , U.N. humanitarian staff, U.N. human rights staff, the UNRWA colleagues in Gaza, dozens of whom have misplaced their existence simply within the final couple of weeks underneath Israeli bombs, are doing completely heroic paintings all over the international. However I would like to take a look at to steer the political aspect of the home to take in a extra real looking and principled technique to this actual battle, one based totally in global human rights, one based totally in global humanitarian legislation, and one based totally in achievable objectives, if no longer within the rapid time period, of a paradigm based totally upon equality, an finish to apartheid, and, as I stated, equivalent rights for Christians, Muslims and Jews.
AMY GOODMAN: I sought after to get your ultimate reaction to the protesters simply the day prior to this in Washington, D.C., within the Senate, again and again disrupting Secretary of State Antony Blinken whilst he was once attesting sooner than the Senate on President Biden’s request for $106 billion for Ukraine, Israel and militarizing the U.S.-Mexico border. A gaggle of protesters with contributors of Muslims for Simply Futures and Detention Watch Community, sitting in the back of Blinken, held up their fingers coated in faux blood. He was once additionally interrupted by means of contributors of CodePink, together with the previous State Division professional Ann Wright, who resigned over the Iraq Warfare. That is what she stated.
ANN WRIGHT: 3 thousand 5 hundred children useless. Come on. I’m an Military colonel. I’m a former diplomat. I resigned on that Warfare in Iraq that you just mentioned. That was once a horrible factor. And what you’re doing at the moment in supporting Israel’s genocide of Gaza is a horrible factor, too. Prevent the conflict! Ceasefire now!
AMY GOODMAN: She was once maintaining an indication as she was once taken out by means of safety, “Ceasefire in Gaza.” Craig Mokhiber, your ultimate feedback?
CRAIG MOKHIBER: That is the place I in finding probably the most hope, Amy. I’ve misplaced self assurance in professional establishments of presidency in spite of everything those years within the global human rights motion. I’m shedding hope in global — necessary portions of global establishments. The place there’s hope, it’s in civil society. It’s in the ones atypical folks, right here in the USA and in other places, who’re prepared to get up and insist appreciate for human existence and for human rights. And a majority of these protests within the halls of Congress, sooner than the State Division, in entrance of the White Space, in Grand Central Station, within the streets, far and wide, specifically with this local weather that is making an attempt to —
AMY GOODMAN: 3 seconds.
CRAIG MOKHIBER: — suppress critique of those present insurance policies, it’s simplest going to come back from civil society —
AMY GOODMAN: Craig Mokhiber —
CRAIG MOKHIBER: — that those shall be shaken unfastened.
AMY GOODMAN: — we thanks such a lot, global human rights legal professional.
